Sky and Amanda 3:18:24
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[00:00:00] Okay, welcome to this combined effort podcast that we have been wanting to do for quite a while. Um, we've got myself, I am Sky, and Amanda, my wife is on here, and then we have Lynnette Sheppard on here as well. Welcome all of us to the podcast. Yeah, especially welcome to myself. I'm glad that I'm
Skyler: here. Um, we, yeah, we've been wanting to do this for quite a while.
This is kind of a topic that, uh, Amanda and I talk about quite a bit. And we talk about it as if we have some sort of knowledge on the ish, on the topic or some sort of authority in this world. But in reality, we have a two year old child. And so we know how to, to some extent, raise a two year old, but we don't know how to raise teenagers yet because we have not experienced that.
Amanda: We know hypothetically what we would do.
Skyler: Yeah. But Lynnette, you've had quite a bit of experience in that regard. Yeah. As far as I hear. Yeah. [00:01:00]
Lynnette: Yeah. I have, I have five kids and four of them are young adults and have left home and we have one 15 year old at home. So we've been in this world of teenagers for a minute.
Skyler: Yeah. And do you, you have your Instagram, I think just Lynnette Sheppard, right? Right. And then you also have your podcast, um, which we're releasing this on both of our platforms. Yeah. Um, so it's a little bit unique, but you've got your stand with Lynnette, and then we are sit down with Sky and Amanda. And I really love the, the wisdom that you always share on your social media, especially and the podcast regarding parenthood kind of a lot of the fears that parents have, and a lot of the ways we can address those fears with the rising generation, bringing the rising generation up to have a relationship with Jesus Christ. I think that's something that you talk about a lot. So we just wanted to kind of bring that conversation to both of our [00:02:00] platforms and get some of your wisdom and hopefully share some things that are somewhat intelligible and see where we can go with this.
Does that sound good?
Lynnette: That sounds good. I just, when you were saying the names of our podcasts, sit down with Sky and Amanda and stand with Lynnette. I think we might be a little confused here today. I don't know what we should do.
Skyler: Are we supposed to stand? I mean, we're sitting, you're also sitting, so. I don't know.
I think the consensus is set.
Lynnette: That just stood out to me. But yeah, I'm really excited for this conversation as well. So it's going to be, it's going to be good.
Skyler: We thought we would start with just trying to understand the culture of Gen Z. Because they do, like every generation, I think have, A fairly unique culture, and there's always with every generation, there's always going to be sort of a gap where the older generation doesn't understand a lot of aspects of the younger generation.
That's kind of a tale as old as [00:03:00] time. So I thought we could start by trying to pinpoint some of the characteristics of Gen Z and try to come to some sort of understanding of how they operate. Um, talk about some good qualities that they have, maybe some, some problem areas, and then kind of go into more solutions.
And parenting techniques of how to help them because I mean, every generation has wisdom to pass on. And so I think it's best to know how the younger generation operates so that we know how to pass on that wisdom to them. So that's kind of the the general outline of what we're going to be talking about today.
Lynnette: Yeah, sounds good. So what is your, what do you think about the Gen Z, as far as good traits? What have you noticed? You're a lot closer to them than I am.
Skyler: That's true.
Amanda: In age, yes, but
Lynnette: That's what I mean.
Amanda: Yeah, you [00:04:00] definitely, I mean, you have five kids that are in that generation or all of them.
Skyler: Yeah. So I'm, we're kind of right on the edge of, um, millennials. I think I am the, maybe the last year. My year, I think it's, oh yeah. Cause you're 95. I think that's like the cutoff. So we're right on the edge of it. But, um, I definitely find myself kind of being in the in between where a lot of, a lot of things about them I don't understand but I do feel that in some ways I can kind of be a mediator between the older and the younger in a lot of ways.
So I think some of their good traits, they're, they're very authentic and they, I think they crave authenticity. And they can pinpoint, Inauthenticity, no, inauthenticity, is that, yeah, that's a word, from a mile away and any sort of like fakeness, they, they can pinpoint and they can call out and they're very okay [00:05:00] with letting you know if they think that you're fake.
Yeah,
Lynnette: I would agree with that. I may have heard that a time or two from my children. Yeah, yeah.
Skyler: So I think that would be a good characteristic that they have. Sometimes I think it can turn into Like a shamelessness or a lack of dignity or kind of oversharing. It can kind of go too far and that happens quite a bit, I think.
But, um, that is a, a positive quality to have being able to pinpoint that. I think,
Lynnette: Yeah, for sure. I agree.
Skyler: They, um, you, you brought up, um, in our preparation, a, um, Another point about how they're naturally inclusive and welcoming. Do you want to go into that a little bit?
Lynnette: Yeah, I think I see that a lot. They want to open the circle.
They want to include, and it just made me think of something that Emily Bell Freeman said in her general conference [00:06:00] talk from last year on conference in October, 2023, that has. I've thought about this quote a lot since then. It really just kind of stuck with me, and she said, You have a genuine desire to know the guide, Jesus Christ.
"You trust the strength of the rope that tethers us to him. You are unusually gifted in gathering others to him."
And I think that's so true. And I have heard her talk about this in the realm of, you know, We are here to gather Israel. It's not an accident that this generation now who is so gifted at gathering is going to kind of be leading the charge on the, on the gathering.
And I had never thought about it in that way before she said that, but I think it's so, so true.
Skyler: Yeah. I've never thought about it that way. That, that is really cool. They are very much. willing to reach to those on the [00:07:00] margins and be very welcoming. Obviously, like any, anything else that can, you can go too far in the direction of not only welcoming every person, but welcome every idea.
And that can kind of start going into like a, an extreme direction. But that is a good, I think, good quality to have being welcoming. We always. Um, talk about in the church of being fostering belonging for others. I think that's a good word to use because we all belong in the church or should feel like we belong, um, regardless of our background and situation.
Um, so yeah, I really liked that. Should we move to. Maybe some, some problem areas that we see in Gen Z or some like potential issues that we, we see.
Lynnette: Let's do it.
Skyler: Okay. I think, um, this is one that I, I kind of have a hard time pinpointing, but it's, it's just like this general attitude that I see of like apathy [00:08:00] or mysteriousness where they, they almost want, they don't want to show all their cards.
Like they want to be kind of a mysterious figure and. Uh, yeah, again, like not. Show that they care too much.
Amanda: I think that's a common teenager.
Skyler: Yeah, maybe that's just a teenager
Amanda: Being a teenager is I mean it's not cool to care It's not cool to show that something's important to them. They want to act like aloof.
Skyler: Yeah I was actually thinking about that today because I I used to have really bad posture I still don't have the best posture, but I'm a lot better at Like being cognizant of standing up straight. I slumped. Yeah. How we're sitting right now is not the best for posture, but, but I was thinking about that earlier.
Cause I think it was indicative of kind of that not caring attitude. Like if you stand up straight, you're kind of presenting to the world that you are like confident and you care about [00:09:00] something and like you have something to offer But then when you're slouching it's more of like a I don't care sort of attitude. And I think I think that was a physical manifestation of my attitude as a teenager.
So yeah. Maybe that's just kind of a teenager thing. Do you, have you seen that in, in your, in your children's generation? Like what sort of indications as far as just not caring,
Lynnette: I do agree with Amanda in that I think maybe this is just a teenage thing where they don't want to let on that they care.
That's what it is. I really care. They really do care. They don't want to let on that they care. And they definitely don't want to let on that they care about things that their parents care about because how embarrassing is that if you care about the same thing that your parents care about? How embarrassing.
So, yeah, I've definitely seen that. I don't know if it's a generational thing or just an age thing.
Skyler: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's probably right. The more, probably more just an age thing. And [00:10:00] I think most people grow out of it. Hopefully that's the ideal, obviously, but definitely something that can be a barrier to your growth or your, um, Desire or like your path to know Christ and to to understand him because because his message is very much That you should care very much a um an antidote to that that attitude of not caring so I think Another thing that we see, um, with this generation is, is just the kind of, kind of the idea that like being normal is bad or weird normal.
I mean, that's kind of a, maybe a bad word to use, but it's in my generation, the idea was, it was cool to be a hipster. And what a hipster meant was that like you. were unique and you liked things that were different from the mainstream. And that [00:11:00] was kind of the idea in my generation. And I think in some regards it has transferred to Gen Z where they feel a need to identify with something unique, but just having something that is novel about them I think is something that I've noticed.
I don't know. What do you think?
Amanda: Going back to what we were saying before I think it's I think Wanting to be unique or having something special about you is a very common thing to feel as a teenager. Um, I think, like Sky said, I think it's kind of morphed. Like he said, it was when we were younger is, oh, you're such a hipster.
And now it's like morphed. The same desire is still there. Um, it just looks different,
I think, in them. I don't know.
Skyler: Do you think that's a teenager thing or this generation thing?
Lynnette: Maybe some of both. I think the teenage years are really crucial years to figure out who you are. I think [00:12:00] they've always been really crucial years to figure out who you are and where you fit and who your people are and where you don't fit.
And there's a lot of experimentation, I think, just in general with that. Trying to find out Where I fit and I see that for sure with my kids and with their friends and maybe trying to be Unique or maybe trying to fit in. I'm not I don't know which one it is Yeah, they're they they want to belong somewhere and I think that's just really kind of a core human need That's really amplified in the teenage years
Skyler: Yeah, cuz I mean everything's amplified like I think back to My upbringing, like there, there are scenarios or there, there are experiences that I had, um, growing up where like a certain color would just really stick with me or like, I, it would be like an emotional, I'd have like an emotional [00:13:00] experience looking at some sort of visual stimuli. I don't know how to explain it, but like your emotions are heightened and everyday experiences, the emotions pack so much more of a punch just because you're going through all of those different emotions. Your, your hormones are going all over the place.
Everyday experiences. And as a, as an adult, I, I, I forget that. Like, I forget that children and teenagers are not just miniature adults like they have a lot have a much different experience in regards to their emotion Like their emotional experience is a lot different how they Um, see the world is, is a lot different.
And I try to remember that because it's really easy to like, uh, earlier when we were trying to get Remy and her car seat to come [00:14:00] home, um, she was having kind of a tantrum and I didn't know what she wanted and I was trying to reason with her as any smart parent does trying to reason with a tantrum toddler, trying to figure out what she wanted and get her to like, tell me. Amanda, like I got back, we, we settled down and we got, I got to the front and Amanda reminded me that like, In those moments, we can't reason with a toddler because they're having an emotional experience.
And we just kind of have to let them experience that before we try to reason with them.
Lynnette: I think that can, that same thing could be true with a teenager on a different level. But yeah, sometimes it's all emotional and there's no reason involved and we wait till that emotion calms down before we try to talk logically.
Skyler: And I'd like to think, I'd like to say that we, Grow out of that entirely. But I think there are times when, when we are in that state where there's no reasoning with [00:15:00] us and maybe that's how God feels trying to, um, like he understands the picture so clearly and, and wants to just reason with us and show us, show us that, no, this is the best way forward, but we're throwing our tantrums and, and need to throw our tantrums before we can understand that reason. Yeah.
What else? Let's see. Um, I think another piece of the puzzle is they, um, they are a lot more dependent on parents. Much longer than previous generations. That was something that you brought up as well.
Do you what what have you experienced with that?
Lynnette: by observation and really with with people in my own extended family just kind of watching this where Some of them just fail to really ever grow up. They're really dependent on their parents for so much longer. And I have this book that I love. It's called [00:16:00] Generation, or Gen Z Unfiltered or something.
And it's written by Tim Elmore and he's a generational expert. And he's the founder of the non profit called Growing Leaders. And he's all about helping parents help their kids to emerge as leaders when they leave home, you know, and, and have the skills necessary to really thrive in life. And, and in that book, he talks about how he has lost track of the number of university deans who have told him that 26 is the new 18, that it really is just taking these kids longer to get that autonomy and independence from their parents. I've seen this so often, so often, and, you know, I, I try to plan ahead for that, even with my kids. We talked about this with them for years and years before they left home, and I still See it even though we planned for it. We prepared for it We did all these things and I'm just like hey, I [00:17:00] think I taught you better like what's going on here But I mean, it's okay for them to to want their parents help It's just I don't know.
I've known people who are well into their 30s and still living at home with them Their children with you know in their parents house with their spouse and with their children for years and years and years past when It should be they should be able to really stand on their own So it's actually a big concern that I have with this generation.
Skyler: Yeah, me too. I I Was thinking about this earlier today. We were at the park with Remy just watching her play and she's always very at the beginning When we get to the playground, she's very much tied to us and she doesn't go off and wander very far, but eventually she gets more comfortable and starts to wander further and further away and, um, start taking more risks with the equipment and jumping off things and stuff like that.
And I was thinking about [00:18:00] how as parents, it is difficult to let them take risks and do things that are dangerous. But Amanda and I were just talking about how important that is. And how you have to do that because yeah, I think a lot of in this generation are growing up with, um, a very cushioned life.
Things are, I've kind of moved in the direction of a lot, everything is safer now, which is, which is good, but children don't have the experience to do dangerous things, which I think, I mean, within reason, obviously, but I think that's an important part of, of development to prove to yourself that you can do hard things or you can do dangerous things and come out on top.
I think that is essential to development and something that unfortunately this generation in a lot of ways is deprived of. I think that's detrimental.
Lynnette: I love that you're talking about that so soon when your kids are so young. I love that you're talking about that because you hit [00:19:00] the nail on the head.
It is so important for them to learn to take risks, and you're letting Remi do that when she's two years old or however old she is. That's so good. I think that as parents, it's really easy to let our own anxieties to. transfer on to our kids. And if we're really afraid that they're going to fall off that equipment and get hurt, they're going to pick up on that.
And then eventually they're not going to want to do it, but it's really natural for them to want to take those risks. And so if we can support that, like you said, in healthy ways. That's actually really, really good for their development. And as they get older, those risks will maybe get greater. And we as parents have to get our own fear under control so that we don't pass that along to our kids.
Because I think another one of the hallmarks of this generation is that they are so anxious, they're so anxious and there's a lot of reasons for that. We're not going to be able to tie [00:20:00] that one up with the bow ever anytime soon. I don't, I think it's multifactorial, but I think this is part of it that we as parents are passing our fear and anxiety onto our kids.
So we got to get ourselves under control so that we can help them develop in the way that is healthy for them.
Skyler: Yeah. And it's hard. It's so hard to do to. Because you're I mean, especially I think Amanda maybe a little bit more like your motherly instinct kicks in I as the father. I'm a little bit more okay Letting them take risks and I've noticed that in our dynamic where I'm more likely to say, oh, she'll be okay Whereas Amanda may want to step in a little bit sooner and I think that's natural and that's good. You need that sort of I think that's why there's so much wisdom in the um, mother, father, child, family unit.
They need that sort of yin and yang, um, they need the sort of justice and mercy or the like whatever [00:21:00] opposites you want to use to describe the, the masculine and the feminine roles in a relationship. But it is hard to allow your children to take risks and to, to see them going through something that is potentially dangerous.
Um, because you want to step in, you want to, I don't know, I feel like especially the mother bear instinct, like if you If a, if a, if a bear cub is in danger, it's dangerous to go up to the mother bear because she's going to lash out and she's going to be very reactionary. And I think some of that same instinct is with, within us for sure.
Amanda: Yeah. It's hard to see your child. I mean, right now it's bumps on the head and scratches on the knee for right now with Remy, Um, but it's hard to see and imagine your child hurting and knowing you could have prevented it, even [00:22:00] though it might not have been the best thing for them. You know, just envisioning that, imagining that happening.
It's hard as a mom.
Skyler: Yeah, I we don't have to go too far into this. This is kind of a whole subject in its in itself But for those who don't know we had a son who was born premature and and passed away after a few weeks But he, in his short life, he was in the NICU and we were really helpless, or we felt really helpless because we, um, he, he lived his whole life in his little isolate, um, hooked up to a lot of tubes and wires and there wasn't really anything that we could do.
And that was, I think the hardest part of the most frustrating part was we wanted to step in and help him, but we couldn't. Um, we had to allow the doctors to, to do that, which we trusted them and they were great, but it was hard because we wanted to, it's kind of the parent instinct to step in and help your child.
And so, [00:23:00] um, I think it's normal to feel. To want to step in, but, um, I don't mean to beat the dead horse, but it is important for our children to, to take those risks and, and within reason, like we have to set boundaries. We have to keep our children safe, but within reason, allow them to experience getting a bruised knee or falling off their bike, or even.
Beyond physical risks like, um, emotional risks, being able to, um, help them navigate when they get older, navigate relationships and, and things like that, um, finding that balance I think is important. Mm hmm.
Lynnette: Yep, for sure.
Amanda: I think that them being able to take risks and it builds confidence in them which confidence helps lead to resilience in children, and I just think that's that's one thing that I [00:24:00] think is lacking in our generation.
I think you see it too with millennials, but I think you also see it with Gen Z quite a bit as well.
Lynnette: Yeah, for sure. This is one of my huge worries about Gen Z. is that they really are not as resilient as previous generations. And, um, I have done a lot of research on this. I've done a lot of study on this.
And I mean, you can find resources that talk about it from the perspective of academia, um, where. There's a, there's a book called How to Raise an Adult that was written by a former freshman dean at Stanford University and her whole book essentially is about the lack of resilience and the lack of life skills that kids are coming to college without those and just really crumbling beneath the weight of the pressure that's there.
And then, you know, the military is seeing the same thing. LDS missionaries are seeing the same thing and Lyle J. Burrup who [00:25:00] counseled missionaries struggling with mental health at the MTC in Provo He wrote an article and he concluded that the most common cause of emotional problems among missionaries was a lack of resilience. In many cases the missionaries just hadn't learned how to deal with challenges well, and so we're seeing it Across the board in all the different walks of life as these kids are growing up and I don't know that there's one thing that we can do to solve this problem because I mean it's big and widespread and multifactorial like we were talking about before but one thing I think we can do is let them fail. Let The kids fail, like let the kids fall down and get a bruised knee, right?
When they're two years old. And like you said, it is really hard to know, well, I could step in here and make this easier. But we have to remember that it's not just about today. It's not about what happens today in this situation. It's about that child learning that they are capable of navigating difficult things [00:26:00] and that they will be okay in the end.
And that doesn't mean that we sit back and do nothing as parents, of course, we want to help, you know, help them through their challenges, whatever those are, but stepping in, trying to fix it, going to coaches, going to teachers, going to friends, trying to, you know, smooth all the rough edges, make sure that they don't have to deal with any bumps on the road.
We're crippling them in the long run by doing that. And that's not what it feels like in the moment. It feels like help, but it's actually not help because we are born resilient. I bet you see that in Remi. She's super resilient. That's how we're born. I think we are born with this ability to withstand hard things and to overcome hard things, and we just have to nurture that.
And that's born in difficulty and we have to remember that that's that's part of the plan. That's part of life. We can't get away with the free ride or an easy ride. That's not why we're here So anyway, I feel really strongly about [00:27:00] this
Skyler: I can tell I love it. I I agree wholeheartedly And I this is something that my I say my parents were actually really good at this Uh principle they they Gave me maybe part of it was just, there were eight of us.
And so they didn't have the time to helicopter parent, but, um, I definitely had a lot of free reign to to make mistakes and to take risks. And, um, again, within reason, but I feel that they were really good at that. And, and I think I see, um, a lot of the fruits of that in my own life of having those experiences of being able to prove to myself what I could do.
We've kind of moved in this direction already, but let's, let's, um, shift further into sort of the more solutions or the, um, how we can parent, uh, this generation and help them, especially in regards to pointing them toward their savior and helping them on the covenant path, exploring [00:28:00] that sort of. Ending on more of a positive, uplifting, sort of helpful note.
Um, now that we've kind of addressed the pitfalls and the, and the good of the generation, the first, first thing that a man and I came up with was, uh, for this podcast, not, not generally speaking, and we didn't come up with this idea, but, um, just, uh, we, we feel really strongly that, um, Not having a smartphone or social media until later in their teens is the way to go where we didn't always used to be that way.
We, um, um, we have kind of grown in this regard and grown, like we've, we've kind of evolved on this issue where to where we really feel that this is the way to go. Cause I, a lot of people will say that's maybe extreme, but I look at, I look at it with the two options [00:29:00] of what's more extreme, not allowing social media and phones until they're older, or giving your child with a developing brain, unfettered access to all of human knowledge and a platform designed to suck up all their time, compare themselves to a curated version of their peers, and give predators easier access to them. Like, which one is the more, the more extreme one? And I, I think right now it's seen as a little bit more extreme to, to not allow your, your teen to have access to social media until later. But I, I really see like a growing movement of parents who are waking up to this.
Amanda: Yeah. I feel like parents our age are starting to. Yeah, like Skyler said, wake up to this. They're starting to get on board. I mean, we have plenty of research and data to back the fact that social media is just not good for [00:30:00] teenagers. I think most people could objectively say that it just Objectively is not good for them for their mental health, for their social skills, for their brains, their learning.
It just objectively is not good.
Skyler: So from your perspective, I mean, you can go on with a thought if you had, but I just also curious from your perspective as, um, cause this probably, I imagine snuck up on you quite a bit being in the generation where your children, you, you didn't really grow up with it and your children, it was.
I don't know. Early on was probably kind of new. What was your experience with that? Like, and did it sneak up on you and how have you addressed it in your family? Yeah.
Lynnette: So, I mean, I got my first smartphone after I had all five of my kids. So, I mean, it's just, there's been so much growth so fast in this area, even just within my kid's lifetime for sure.
But we were of the mindset when our kids [00:31:00] were really young, we said, we're not giving them smartphones like ever. They're never having access to smartphones. And then the missionary program changed their tune and gave all missionaries smartphones. And I thought, well, I have to train them how to use these devices because this technology is just going to get more advanced.
It's not going to go away. And so I can't just stick my head in the sand and pretend like this isn't. Here and this isn't going to be part of their lives. So we kind of changed our tune and we did give our kids smartphones when they were 13 I think but we they didn't have like Gabb phones or anything back then.
So we just like took Safari off. They didn't have browser. They didn't have access to the app store. Like they were pretty locked down and we literally did not give them Safari on their phone until they graduated from high school. That is how that is how strict we were with the phones because I just did not see any reason for them to have [00:32:00] unfettered access to the Internet at all times.
Um, and we with our kids are among the I don't know, maybe it's a movement that's growing of we did not let them have social media until they turned 16. That was our, our cutoff and my reasoning behind that was, There were, there were a lot of reasons, but one of the main ones is that I wanted them to have a solid sense of self and self worth and self confidence before I set them free on this platform that is just filled with comparison and all the friends that are leaving you out and all the things, plus cyberbullying.
I mean, there's just so many things on there that once they have access to that platform, you as parents cannot control. And I was like, no, you need to understand who you are before I set you free here. Because I remember what it was like to be a 13, 14, 15 year old girl. And it was brutal, even before the age of social media.
And I think this is just amplifying the [00:33:00] insecurity and, I don't know, the friend drama and all the things that are already there in the teenage years. Yeah. And so, I'm like, no. And even at 16. Those girls, I have two daughters and I still, they were still struggling with that, but I'm just like, okay, all right We said 16, so I'll give it to you. Even though I think we could probably wait a little bit and it would be okay, but they pushed back hard. They pushed back hard because they were the only ones of their friends who did not have access to social media That's where the friends all talked like My kids could text.
Mom, nobody texts. They snapchat. I'm like, well, you're not ever getting snapchat while you are, unless you're 18 or older. So, sorry. And we've held our guns on that one, too. But, um, I don't know, that's just how the friends communicated, that's how, I mean they had some arguments that they thought were valid, and I said to myself, and to them, this isn't enough, that I don't [00:34:00] see enough benefit here to outweigh the risks.
And so we're not gonna do it. And I actually regret it zero. And they were all fine. And they all figured out how to socialize with their friends, even when they could not snap them, or do whatever. Right. And so I was like the mean parent and they just stopped asking after a while because it was going to be a hard no. That was a hill I was going to die on.
There are some other hills that we can maybe talk about, but that one.
Skyler: That's so great. And I, I think that is, um, I like, like I said earlier, I think, I think it has been seen as kind of an extreme, uh, route to take, but I'm really hoping, especially with things like the, like Gabb phones and different, um, even once they get phones, there are a lot more advanced filtering programs that uses that use AI to, um, keep them safe.
Um, so I think there are a lot more resources. Coming up, and I think a lot more people, [00:35:00] parents going this route to where it's not going to be as abnormal. I'm hoping. That's kind of the reading the tea leaves, the hopeful reading of the tea leaves that I have for the future. And I hope it moves in that direction, for sure.
Because there are Like with, with influencers, um, kind of a related topic. It's in my day, it was there weren't back in my day here. I am as a 30 year old saying that, but there, there weren't an endless supply of influencers. There, there were celebrities, obviously there were influencers, there were people who had influence, but now there are like, there's an endless supply, like, depending on what your interests are, you will find influencers, you'll find thousands of influencers who have tens of thousands of followers within a specific niche or [00:36:00] subject or whatever.
So there are dime a dozen, and there are so many, there's no way as a parent, you're going to be able to stay on top of knowing all of the influencers out there. And so once Your child gets to the point where they are using social media. I don't, I don't think it ends there. Like we still have to be informed about, you know, asking, being curious about, you know, what influencers do you follow and what do they say about this topic and this topic, and maybe even following them yourself to know what they're like and, and keeping up with them as much as you can and.
There's an endless route there. Like you're not, you're not going to be able to stay on top of all of that, but I think we can make some sort of effort to, to do that because it is a very different world than, than what I grew up in. And there are a lot more opportunities for people to have influence over your child.
And it's, it can be dangerous [00:37:00] because they. You never know what, what, what sort of influence or what sort of ideas they might have and, and present to your child.
Lynnette: Yeah, for sure. I worry about this one. And I think that even after your kids are 16 and they have social media, uh, you have the passwords to that social media and you're checking to see who they're following and who they're listening to.
Skyler: And you're their friend, like you follow them and you're their, their friends.
Lynnette: You follow them and you're their friend and you say, give me your phone and I'm going to look at your Instagram or whatever, you know, just so I think those conversations for sure need to be had.
And I don't think that 16 year olds need that privacy. To be honest. I mean, people will disagree with me on that, which is fine, but
Skyler: We agree
Lynnette: Good. I'm glad you guys agree. But I think that, I mean, influencers are huge and we're talking about faith and when we're talking, Oh, it's muddy.
It gets muddy on social media because I mean, there are for sure good influencers who are sharing pure truth. [00:38:00] And then there are some who are sharing pure truth mixed with pure speculation. or pure philosophies of men, and it's very confusing. And so that's one of the bigger worries that I have as far as my kids are concerned, is that they got to be able to discern between what's true and what's not true.
And that that's a different conversation maybe than just social media alone. I think we, we just, we need to be teaching them how to discern so they can know who is a good influence and who isn't. Yes.
Amanda: It gets really hard and Tricky when you follow someone you have a lot of the same interests You think they're a really cool influencer and then they start to say these things that go directly against your beliefs it's hard to as a teenager kind of sort like separate the idea from the person and the person Mean when you like someone and you enjoy following them and you think they're really a [00:39:00] cool person like a cool influencer It's hard to you know Disagree with them, especially as a teenager.
Skyler: Yeah, because we were talking earlier I called you on the phone and I realized after later on in the conversation that it was the first time that we had actually talked because I've listened to your podcast and I've heard your voice on social media. And I just felt, I already felt this sort of connection.
And so I didn't like, we just got right down to business. And then later on, I was like, Oh wait, we've never talked in person. And yeah, like there is this connection that we can have with, with people virtually, and it's a really unique experience. And so if somebody that we come to trust. Um, even if through the, um, you know, through the, the World Wide Web, um,
Lynnette: That sounds so archaic.
Skyler: It totally does. I know, I did it on purpose. Um, it's, it can be hard when they, [00:40:00] um, start going against your beliefs or start moving in a different direction. It's, it's almost like, you know,
Amanda: Yes, it feels like it was like you're betraying them if you believe differently than what they do.
Skyler: Yeah. And I like what you said earlier about how I just see a lot of wisdom in your parenting from one thing that you said, especially you said that you were the mean parent or like you.
You were okay not being, um, I don't know if you said it exactly this way, but essentially you were okay not being like your child's friend, per se, because you're not, you want to be loving and you want to have a relationship with your child, but you're not their buddy. You're not their friend. Um, in a, in the way,
Lynnette: Don't get me started.
Don't get me started on that one. Oh no. Um, yeah, no. I don't believe in being my kids friends. I think there's a time in the season for everything. And now, like that, The ones [00:41:00] who have left home and they're young adults and they care about what I have to say. They didn't when they were teenagers, but now that they do, that's the season of friendship.
And of course you want to have good relationships with your kids and good relationships with your teenagers. You want them to feel comfortable coming to you and talking to you, but they don't want you as their friend. Like, yeah. And, I don't know, when you're on a friend level, it makes it really hard to make those calls that you have to make as a parent for their safety, for their good, because you don't want to upset them.
Because friends don't want to upset friends, you know, if you can kind of get yourself out of that friend mind zone or mind zone That's not even a word mindset Then it makes it really a lot easier to keep those boundaries that are important to keep when you're raising kids
Skyler: Yeah, there there has to be that sort of that sort of dynamic where you are the parent and [00:42:00] They are the child like there has to be that sort of I think there's a lot of wisdom in that sort of structure Because like you were saying it's if you are on their same level in that like you're on this you're as if that you're you are as though you are peers and Um, the parenting can't happen like they're, they're, the, the power dynamic is messed up.
They have to respect you in a way where they will, uh, take your wisdom and, um, and apply it in their life and, and not just take it the same that they would take something from their friend, an idea from a peer.
Lynnette: Yeah. Somebody explained it to me one time and this made a lot of sense to me. If there's a CEO of a company and he goes and hangs out on a friend level with somebody who works below him. That makes it really, that relationship would be, Muddy at work, [00:43:00] right? Because he has to be making those hard calls and doing, making those hard decisions at work that maybe that employee doesn't like, but they're friends. And so how do you do that?
Yeah. You know, I don't know. That made a lot of sense to me when I was thinking about it in the realm of parents too, because you can be friendly without being friends.
Skyler: Yes. Yeah. That's the distinction I think. And it's. Yeah. I, when I, I remember when I was younger, I would always, we would always have conversations with my friends.
We would talk about how we're going to be such cool parents. Like, yeah, it was always after our parents did something that, that bothered us or like, they wouldn't let us go somewhere. We would have a conversation about how we're going to let our kids do whatever. And like, we're going to be such cool parents and be their buddies.
And then now here I am having this conversation that's very different and, and, and hopefully that, that means that I've learned and matured a little bit in that idea. [00:44:00] Cause it's, um, yeah, it sounds good when you're younger, you want to be like the cool dad, but it's parents or children need parents. They, they need that sort of children crave boundaries and they, they crave a sort of safety, that safety net of knowing where the boundaries are.
They, they need that. If, if there are no boundaries, they get anxious and they don't know where to go or what to do. Uh, and, um, I think that's going back to our earlier conversation where a lot of that anxiety comes from. With more permissive parenting rather than, um, authoritative parenting, which is not authoritarian parenting, but more of the, the line that we always use is loving, but firm, that sort of balance of having rules and being very firm and setting those clear boundaries, but also being loving in your enacting of those [00:45:00] rules.
Speaking of influencers, I think maybe we could wrap up this conversation with speaking to, um, how we can point them to Christ to be their ultimate influence in their life and what, in what ways we can point them in that direction. Um, cause obviously that's going to help them be most successful in life, developing a personal relationship with their savior.
I, growing up, I had a lot of. Experiences to feel the spirit. Um, a lot of whether youth activities or, you know, youth events or my mission, there are, there are these key moments, three or four in my life where I can look back on when things are hard or I'm, I am feeling some sort of doubt or an ease. Um, I can look back to those, those experiences where I had a very tangible.
Um, experience with the [00:46:00] spirit in a way that I've never been able to explain away rationally. Um, I, I am kind of more of a rational logical thinker in a lot of ways. So those, those moments pack more of a punch because I, I can't really explain those away, um, how I felt in those situations. It was very, I felt lifted up.
Like it's hard to explain if, if you haven't experienced it, or even if you have, it's, it's hard to explain, especially if you have, but those moments are key to keeping, um, my testimony intact because I could try and explain it away, maybe it was some sort of self manipulative. Brainwashing sort of thing where I I don't know.
I like I can't explain them away and so they really help me stay anchored and so I think allowing our children to have a lot of opportunities to Feel the spirit and to experience that is really important to to help them stay anchored [00:47:00] When things will inevitably Um, become challenging and, and they question their faith or they, they, they experienced doubt like we all do.
I think that's a key.
Lynnette: I totally agree with you. I think that there's probably not one thing that we can do to, to prepare our kids to really be spiritually self reliant, but like you said, those spiritual experiences that kind of define our faith that happen all throughout our lives, if we're looking for them, if we're doing the things that allow us to have those experiences, but sometimes as parents, you think the scripture study doesn't matter, the come follow me doesn't matter, taking this two year old to church while she's screaming, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, it doesn't feel like it matters. It feels like the needle doesn't move. For years, sometimes, it feels like the needle doesn't move. But I can tell you that it matters.
And the foundation that you're laying when your kids are young, it matters. [00:48:00] It's the, it's the effort that's magnified over time. It's the power of small and simple things that over time yield huge results. And it's not going to be one conversation that you have with your kids or one come follow me lesson or one trip to the temple to do baptisms.
It's not any one of those things. It's a combination of all of those things. And just being able to have conversations about the gospel in your home. Not even planned conversations. I think unplanned conversations about the gospel, especially when those kids get to be teenagers are more impactful almost than the planned ones.
Um, and our kids, some of them have gone through periods where they don't want to participate. They're pushing back. They don't want to go to mutual. Cause that's just teenagers, right? And they sometimes we'll go through those phases, but I guess what I've learned is just, you know, it's, To be consistent. And now to hear those kids who pushed back and gave us grief now that they're on the other side of it and they've gone on missions and they've come [00:49:00] home and they're just like You guys just were consistent and that's what mattered.
That's what mattered to us over, over time. So just talk of Christ, teach of Christ, rejoice of Christ. I don't know the scripture reference for that somewhere in the book of Nephi or 2nd Nephi. Just talk about it in your homes. Make that something that, that is part of your family culture and that goes a long way.
Skyler: Yeah, I was, I was going to say something similar of, uh, we, we obviously have to, we have to demonstrate the, the relationship we have with our savior to our children. Um, otherwise they're not going to know what that is. Um, so obviously it starts with us. We have to have that relationship and, and I think be very, very, uh, cognizant of, or like intentional of showing your children your relationship with your savior.
I think it was. I want to say, Oh, maybe it was you. It was either you or, um, Becky [00:50:00] Squire on Instagram who had, I am so bad at remembering specifics, but had some sort of either a real. Or something on instagram talking about how it's important to let your children see You engaging with the gospel. Was that you or was that?
Lynnette: I don't think it was me.
Skyler: I think it might have been Becky. She I I think it was she she had the idea of if you have a super busy day Even just opening your scriptures Like allowing your children to see you open the scriptures at some point in the day and read for a few minutes, like little moments like that, where your children can see that sort of, um, effort that you're making to develop your, you know, your, uh, testimony, your relationship with your savior. I think that those go a long way in, in helping your child know what they need to do in order to have the same in their life. Well, we, um, I think to kind of bring it full circle, um, earlier you, you mentioned [00:51:00] How we, we shouldn't parent from a place of fear. And I think that is a good way to wrap this all up.
Like we personally have to demonstrate our love for the savior, but also to demonstrate the sort of hope that we may not always feel, but that we hopefully feel about, about the future and about our progression on the path and hopefully pass that down to our children. So they don't pick up on our, our fear and our anxiety and experience that in their own life.
I think that's, I mean, easier said than done, obviously, but I think that is the, the ideal to, we were talking, Amanda and I were talking a few weeks ago about like, if you go to Disneyland and you're having a bad day, It's up to you as a parent to suck it up and to have fun at Disneyland. Cause you're at Disneyland with your children and you, it's, it's like [00:52:00] it's a a moral imperative not to ruin that experience for your children.
So I don't care how bad of a day you're having. I think you should at least not let your children see that. And in, in situations like that, obviously you're, you, your children need to see you work through hard emotions. It's okay for them to see you emotionally distraught and work through that. But in certain situations, you need to be that backbone, be the strength.
And, um, even if you don't feel it, act as though you feel hope and you feel happy so that your children can, can absorb that from you. I think there's a balance obviously, but I think that is what we, as parents need to do to help our children.
Lynnette: I agree with that, and I think that it's important to remember that fear is a tool of the adversary.
Feeling frantic and afraid about the future, about what our kids have to deal with growing up, I mean, I look at how much the world has changed from even 10 years ago when my oldest was in [00:53:00] the place where my youngest now is, and it's crazy what has happened even in 10 years, morally, in society. It's just, it feels like we're in a nosedive and it's easy to look at that as a parent, from the perspective of, I have to teach my kids to navigate all of this garbage, and it's just getting worse at this exponential rate, and it can feel so scary. But fear is a tool of the adversary. I think we need to remember as parents that we have Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ on our side and that they trust us or else we wouldn't be here raising children right now. And they trust our kids or he wouldn't have sent them into the middle of this mess that they didn't get to choose.
This is just where they are. This is where they're growing up and it's only going to get worse from here and he knows that and he trusts them and he trusts us and I feel like that is empowering. If we can rise up a little bit above the muck that we're kind of in from day to [00:54:00] day, and just remember the big picture, and remember that It's going to be okay.
And that doesn't mean that they're not going to make stupid choices or that they're, they're not going to get pulled off the path at some point, because they're not growing up in a bubble and they never will be. But we will always have the Lord on our side and we will always have access to personal revelation and to his power through our covenants to help us navigate whatever comes.
So let's not feel frantic. It's going to be okay. We need to have faith in ourselves and our kids and in the Lord. And I think, I don't know. I think that's really key.
Skyler: Amen. Well put. Did you want to clean up anything that I said, Amanda, clean up on aisle three?
Amanda: I just want to echo what Lynnette said. And Heavenly father really knows our children and he knows us.
He knows what we're capable of. And he knows what our children need and he knows we're not perfect parents. We're [00:55:00] never going to be. He doesn't expect that but he knows what to do with our imperfections and he knows how to help our children through whatever we may mess up as parents because it's inevitable.
We're imperfect. And, um, he knows how to help them through that and he trusts them. And so I just wanted to echo what Lynnette said.
Skyler: Amen. Again, I'm so glad that we were able to do this. Thank you for being willing to do this sort of joined podcast. I really enjoyed our conversation and I hope we can do this again.
Lynnette: I was just thinking I'll do it again. I'm sure there's a lot that we could talk about. I know.
Amanda: I felt there were so many things that were like, there's gonna be a whole podcast episode in and of itself.
Skyler: We did. We didn't know. I felt the same thing. We had kind of an outline and we didn't really make big of a, too big of a dent in it because we can, I can tell, feel very passionate passionately about these things, but I think they're [00:56:00] important and.
Um, yeah, I just thank you again and, um, hope we can do it again. And maybe it can be sit down with Sky and Amanda and Lynnette.
Lynnette: There we go. Let's get rid of stand up. I don't know.
Skyler: Stand up, stand up is a little bit more empowering. I think I just early on. I just, I just did sit down with Sky before Amanda came on.
Sit down with sky just because it kind of flowed, but I think there's more imagery to stand with Lynnette. So
Lynnette: Well, we can just do stand up sit down fight fight fight, right
Skyler: Let's do it again.
Lynnette: Sounds good
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